[Mike G]

If you are a club member, you will probably have received an email letting you know how to log into the wtmc.org.nz website.

If you have NOT received an email like this, please contact me and I’ll sort it out.

Did you know you can use your login to email other members, and find their phone numbers?

These are the steps to go through, to find a member’s phone number or send them an email:

1. log into the website with your username and password
2. double click in the ‘search’ box just below the login button – and enter the first name of the person you are searching for.
3. The results will come back – these are the results for searching the website. But you can click on the ‘members’ tab of the search box, to see the members with the first name you entered.
4. Now click on the appropriate username to see that person’s phone number. You can also send them an email by clicking the ‘contact’ tab and typing a message in.

We’re working on making this a little simpler, and to allow you to search on more than just first name. Watch this space.

[MikeG]

Searching for members just got a little simpler.

When you search for a member by their first name, as described above, the search results will now show their names and phone numbers without you having to click anything more.

Click on their username (in blue) to get to the ‘contact us’ screen, so you can email them.

We’re not done yet with improving search, but hopefully that’s a step in the right direction…

[Andrew]

That very nice if you live on a computer/smart phone 24/7. When I look up a member I want a land line phone number not a cell phone number. For the old members out there you will remember the yearly phone lists being sent out to all members, why can we not go back to this? This was part of our subs.

I know I do not want to log on to a computer every time I want a phone number of a member and pay a cost to call them on a cell phone when I can call free on a land line. If the club can not or will not publish a contact list please go back to the old contact list on line where we had all of the details of the member. If a member does not want there details to be displayed then they can have this blocked.

But please get this sorted out.ASAP from a long time member 30+ years

[MikeG]

Hi Andrew,

All good points. How easy or hard it is to get to the members’ list is a constant source of debate, with fairly equal numbers of people concerned with how their contact information is protected, and how much of a hassle it is to find people’s contact details.

The topic of paper contacts lists has been talked about before. The committee have decided not to mail out paper copies of the membership list because it is is costly to mail out lists and they quickly get out of date. If you particularly want a paper copy, let someone on the committee know and they should be able to provide one. There have been only a couple of people who have shown any interest in this, including when it was raised at the AGM earlier this year.

The phone number thing is something we’re working through. Currently we can only show one phone number, and we picked mobile by default since it’s usually the most reliable and it lets you txt as well as phone. A landline isn’t much use if you’re trying to track down someone who has already left for their tramp. It’s definitely something we’ll look at, but other problems, like not being able to search on last name, are higher on the list. Apologies that things like this are taking so long to sort out; the good news is that there was significant housekeeping work to get done to allow us to address these sort of problems, and we’ve nearly completed that housekeeping work. So you should see some more improvements soon, especially if stormy weekends mean we’re not out tramping!

Cheers, Mike.

[harry]

I agree completely with Andrew. I would like to have a paper phone list like we used to. I find that much more convenient than having to look up a number online (and besides, not everybody has a computer, and even if you do you are not going to be sitting at it all day long). I can’t see why an annual printed phone list can’t be included in the subs like it always used to.

And I want to see a full list of contact details, including a landline if one is available. (This is not meant as a criticism of the web-masters – I appreciate these things are complicated and time consuming to develop and maintain.)

– from another geriatric old-time member of XX+ years…..

[Ray]

Here’s a compromise: Create a PDF phone list and place it in a members only page on the web site. Then any member who needs a paper copy can print it out. Thus, there would be no printing or mailing costs incurred by the club.

Ray

[harry]

That sounds like a reasonable compromise to me.

[Andrew]

That sounds like a reasonable compromise to me.

Beacuse I was the person who raised this at the AGM and still waiting on a copy as promised.

[bethnkevin]

RAY, you have hit the nail on the head, lets go for PDF file, updated every year from the paid up members list, and all members will be able to find names and numbers, ( If listed) just what Andrew wanted !!! My last printed list which I use was lasted printed in 2008..Harry should be happy with this type of format !!

[MikeG]

The pdf thing is a great idea, and I was originally all for it.

Until I thought about how someone would quickly send it to their mate who wasn’t a member but needing to track down some people on a trip of theirs, who put it on google docs but got the sharing settings a bit wrong… and suddenly it’s circulating on the internet, and I’m needing to explain to a whole lot of very angry people how we let this happen.

It’s not a particularly likely scenario – but then again, neither is my death in a fiery car crash, but I still wear my seatbelt and look twice at intersections. It’s the club’s job to protect members’ contact details and the other side of this is there are people who get pretty grumpy when there’s any hint of their details escaping like this – we’ve had scenarios like this presented to us pretty forcefully by people in the past, who question exactly what we’re doing to stop it happening.

This discussion is great. Keep the ideas and opinions coming.

Cheers, Mike.

[MikeM]

This might help: Privacy Commissioner – Information held by Clubs and Societies

[harry]

MikeG’s scenario seems pretty unlikely to me.

I’m not a technical guro but can’t you have a system set up where people can view and print a PDF list but not copy or forward it on?

If you want to ensure absolute, complete protection, about the only way would be to keep the list locked in a safe in a bank vault in the basement of a heavily armed military fortress on Alpha Centauri, surrounded by herds of ravenous bugblatter beasts. Even then, the CIA might mount a secret space mission to obtain a copy of it.

But anyway, in the meantime how about printing off a couple of dozen paper copies and having them available at clubnight for geriatric old codgers like me and Andrew and any other members who prefer a paper hardcopy to the newfangled online system? Like BethnKevin, I’m still using my 2008 list and it’s probably getting a bit out of date.

[Ray]

Here is compromise no. 2.

In the Access database that the membership officer maintains there is an option in each person’s record not include their details in the printed address list or on the web site. So it easiy enough not to publish someone’s details if that is what they want.

A few years ago I was given the job of compiling the data for the printed list. At the time I was a little concerned about the data that was to be included. In particular, details of member’s children, and that relationships were included. Anyway, I did what I was told to do and compiled the data.

So my view is that we sould only publish the details of those who agree to let their data be published, and limit the data to name, phone numbers, and email. Addresses, relationsips, and details of children should be left out.

Ray

[MikeM]

I was a membership secretary for a different club between about 10-15 years ago and for reasons which I don’t remember, the committee resolved an interpretation that it was necessary for people to opt-in before any of their details could be handed out from the database. If you require an opt-in, there will always be a large number of situations where people just don’t do it because they don’t care enough at the time, or are automatically suspicious moreso because you’re asking than anything else. That’ll result in either a sparse phone list of limited usefulness, or a lot of effort for a few people to chase others down and actively get permission. For me, it resulted in some absurd situations where I’d be asked for a member’s address, and have to be a go-between to get that person’s permission before I could give it back (nobody ever cared even though they hadn’t ticked the box when joining or renewing). In one case I told someone I wasn’t allowed to give it from the club’s database, but the person ran a company with their name and home phone number all over his website, so it was easier for me to direct the requestor to the website instead.

In hindsight I think our interpretation was too strict. Reading the Privacy Commissioner’s interpretation linked above, it seems the most important thing is that members have been informed and kept in the loop about what’s happening with their info that the club holds. From that I’d have thought it might be enough to give everyone a month or two’s notice in the newsletter, and let people opt out if they really don’t want to be included.

If WTMC were a club that didn’t usually involve members needing to contact each other directly for the club’s main activities then it might be different, but to me it seems that because the main activities of the club (organising tramping trips and similar) revolve around people needing to reliably contact each other, and because this happens all the time anyway, there’s already an implication that handing around contact info for reasonable reasons should be expected. IMHO if there’s some reasonable notice given that it’s going to happen in the form of a paper list for those who request it and that it’ll only contain basic contact info (like phone numbers and email addresses) as Ray suggested, it’d be enough.

That’s just my thoughts, though. I appreciate that there’s concern within the committee and I’m sort-of glad that the club actually cares about this kind of thing. I’m not a lawyer and if there’s significant dissent after some gauging around for what people think, maybe something more formal would be needed.

[Steven]

Interim solution is that if you would like a list of current WTMC members, phone numbers etc then please post a stamped self addressed envelope to WTMC, PO Box 5068, Wellington & I will send one to you.

I will also print off a handful of copies which can be available on club nights – ask me for one.

Andrew – apologies for delay in getting this info to you – I will send you this next week.

Cheers

Steve

[MikeG]

Good stuff everyone.

Here’s a question. How much information should we publish about people?

Mobile phone and home phone seem to me to be by far the most useful contact methods.

Work phone? I’d prefer not to put it on the website, but only because it’ll be slightly tricky to. But that’s my problem, not yours. How useful is work phone number?

Email is also very useful but it’s also the one people get the most twitchy about. Is the website contact form an okay compromise? Don’t forget this is only for your initial contact, once the person emails you back you have each others’ email addresses. And by definition you’ll be on a computer when you’re emailing someone, so not having it on a printed list is not such a big deal?

Address is the one I think isn’t one to publish. I just can’t think of any reason why I’d want someone’s address as the first point of contact. Am I going to write to them? Or even creepier, just come visit unannounced? Anyways, see if you can come up with convincing scenarios why it’s be useful.

Of course, the people on the committee and associated with the lodge will have the full list, so they can send newsletters and email a group of punters and suchlike. This is in the context of ‘I’m a club member and I want to get hold of some other club members that I don’t know or just met the other day’.

Cheers, Mike.

[MikeM]

Personally I’d go for home/mobile phone numbers and email address, and give people a reasonable time (maybe a couple of months for word to get around) for people to opt out if they don’t wish for all (or any) of that to be included. You can always phone or email someone to get a physical address if it’s needed.

Strictly speaking, it’s tough to be a member of the club these days if you haven’t already scribbled phone numbers and email addressses in unreadable hieroglyphs on a trip sign-up sheet in an already public place for other members to see, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to expect that the club won’t circulate that information to other members for use in club activities, as long as it isn’t abused. Email addresses and phone numbers are also the most critical info that trip leaders need to be sure they have correct when trying to arrange a trip.

Again that’s just my thoughts obviously.

Mike (one of the other ones).

[harry]

Work phone numbers are very useful (in fact I’d say critical) if you have to get hold of people on a Friday due to any last minute changes of plan, transport arrangements, etc

[MikeG]

I’ve just updated all members’ details – as part of this I’ve figured out a way to show mobile, home and work phone numbers against each name.

So against each person’s name you should see all the phone numbers we know about, when you search the contacts list on the website.

BUT – we give you something, we take something away. Due to a formatting problem, the user search doesn’t really work at all in Google Chrome. Please use a different browser to find users’ contact details. We’re working on this even as I type this (well, I’ll be looking at it just AFTER I finish typing this).

Cheers, Mike.

[Author]

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